Ep 41 Southwark to The Elephant - The Roebuck, The Ship, The Duke of York, The Albert Arms, The Elephant and Castle

In this episode, we journey from the southern part of Southwark over to Elephant and Castle taking in 5 interesting pubs:  The Roebuck, The Ship, The Duke of York, The Albert Arms and The Elephant and Castle

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Google map with pubs covered in previous episodes pinned, courtesy of Andy Meddick:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1xXDGJSfJIUy2gw_6uCASi-C45FpOg_M&usp=sharing

Or TinyURL:  https://tinyurl.com/4xhc8w2s

The following resources are referenced or quoted frequently in these episodes:

• Ted Bruning  -- Historic Pubs of London (ISBN 978-0658005022) and London By Pub (ISBN 978-0658005022)
• Wikipedia
• https://londonspubswherehistoryreallyhappened.wordpress.com/  by Ann Laffeaty 
• Camra’s various websites including WhatPub.com
• Pubwiki: https://pubwiki.co.uk/

Additionally, the  following resource(s) were used / quoted in this episode.

Roebucks Grade II Entry: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1393945?section=official-list-entry

Parched Pubs , True Pubs & Shepard Neame Websites:

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1393945?section=official-list-entry

https://www.truepubco.co.uk/

https://www.shepherdneame.co.uk/

True Pubs Interview: https://southwarknews.co.uk/area/borough/the-ship-in-borough-is-reopening-in-less-than-a-month/

Independent Article on Dukes of York

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/greene-king-london-duke-of-york-southwark-westminster-b1993432.htm

Pubs Galore Reviews of Elephant & Castle

https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/24228/

Intro Music:  Vivaldi - Spring Allegro by John Harrison w/ the Wichita State University Chamber Orch.

Photo:  Ewan Munro

Website: https://historiclondonpubcast.com/

E-mail: hosteric@historiclondonpubcast.com

Transcript

Welcome to this episode of The Historic London Pubcast. I'm Eric Blair, and I'd like to take you on a journey through the rich history of London's iconic pubs. My goal is to share with you my passion for the great old pubs of London. I want to give you some facts to help you appreciate the history of these hallowed establishments mixed in with some fun stories that make it all go down as smooth as a well poured pint.

Today we're starting off in the southern reaches of Southwark and making our way onto a part of London with one of the more peculiar names Elephant and Castle. We'll get into how that name came about when we reach it. But first, a quick word on today's itinerary. Most of the pubs we are visiting all have historic credentials, mostly Victorian, some even older.

But it isn't one of those episodes filled with too many swashbuckling tales and legendary patrons. And that's fine. These are solid, time-honored locals, each with their own charm and a few distinctive touches that make them worth the stop. We'll get to five pubs in total, and so we'll be moving a bit more briskly than usual. Just so you're not caught off guard.

We'll start today with The Roebuck at 50 Great Dover Street. The records of a pub go back here to the late 1700s, and they verify that it had today's name in 1825. The name Roebuck is famous in the US as the last part of Sears and Roebuck, a department and mail order store. It was a household name in 20th century America, but Mr. Alva Roebuck, co-founder of that firm, had nothing to do with the name of this pub.

A Roebuck is a male Roe Deer. The Roe Deer is a small and graceful species of deer native to Europe. In heraldry and pub naming, the roebuck often symbolizes nobility, swiftness and natural beauty. It's a name that's been popular for English inns and taverns since at least the 17th century, and I think you will agree that it's a good name for today's beautiful pub.

Let's talk about how we get to today's pub, the thoroughfare on which the pub resides, Great Dover Street was established as a turnpike road in 1750, a significant infrastructure improvement designed to reduce congestion. See, nothing changes even in 250 years. Road construction to relieve rush hour backups. Then and now. At least now we can listen to podcasts while we wait.

Like any new freeway, the new route attracted local establishments to serve the travelers, in this case, inns and public houses. That was undoubtably the lifeblood of the early pub. Around 1892, The Roebuck underwent a significant rebuild which gave us the wonderful building of today. The Londonistdoesn't mince words,

“The pub is based in an attractive Victorian building with mansard roofing, Dutch gables and green dome like roof structure. In short, one of the handsomest pubs in the city.”

The pub friendly blog site aladyinlondon.com is just as taken with the place, saying,

“The Roebuck is housed in one of the most eye-catching buildings in London. It's one of my favorite places to photograph in the UK capital. The pub is for you if you want to go somewhere that is both photogenic and slightly off the beaten path.”

Thank you, The Londonistand aladyinlondon.com. In 2010, the pub received a Grade II listing status. And as frequent listeners know, that's every historic pub's ultimate goal. The status is given to buildings and other sites considered nationally important and of special interest warranting efforts to preserve their character and features. In practical terms, it means that demolition or wholesale change will not get approved.

The pub's Grade II entry is linked in the notes for those who want a detailed description of the architectural features. If you want a less dense description of the pub, let me offer the following, 

“The Roebuck is a handsome, wedge-shaped pub that makes clever use of its corner plot. It's got porches on either side and once you're in the space, opens up around a central horseshoe shaped bar.

The layout, along with the windows on nearly every wall, gives the whole place a light, airy feel during the day. A bit unusual for a London pub where gloom can sometimes be part of the charm. There's a touch of greenery; pot plants perched above the bar and entrance entranceway. Soften the edges and add to the relaxing atmosphere. The decor mixes traditional and modern with deft hand.

Bare wooden floors, pale tones, scrubbed down tables and plenty of gray above the wainscoting overhead. White globe liners give off a soft glow, while the bar itself is held up by some rather grand Corinthian columns. Unexpected, but it works. Banquettes and old-fashioned kettles line the walls and back. There's a quieter, carpeted snug for those who want to tuck themselves away altogether.

It's a calm, well-kept space, unfussy but not without a bit of flair. The pub is run today by Parched Pubs, a collective of friends that have taken over several pubs in the Greater Southwark area. We first mentioned them when we were covering The White Horse in Peckham. They pride themselves in seeking out and often saving great neighborhood pubs. A key objective is to maintain the local feel. The Roebuck was the very first pub taken on in 2003. Today their count is up to around seven. Pubs need folks like these. Hats off to Parched Pubs and hats off as well to the beautiful Roebuck.” 

Take a look at the pictures you can find on Google Images. It's a real stunner.

Okay, a seven-minute walk away is our next pub as we head out. Here's an interesting story about Great Dover Street. In 1999, during building works nearby, archeologists uncovered a Roman era burial. Not anything very unusual in Southwark, but this particular one stood out. The skeleton belonged to a woman laid to rest in a lavish wooden coffin, her head resting on a silk cushion, surrounded by glassware and cosmetic pots.

The press quickly dubbed her, “The Great Dover Street Woman.” She was thought to have lived in the mid to late 14th century AD when first made public. The discovery sparked wild speculation, some wondering if she might have been a female gladiator, which would have made her the first ever one found in Roman Britain. That theory didn't hold up under scrutiny, but it showed how compelling her story is.

Wherever she was, she lived and died in some style, and her burial hints at the cosmopolitan mix of Rome and London, where someone from North Africa or the Mediterranean might find a home. Perhaps not so different from the city's diversity today. At the time of her burial in the fourth century was right at the end of the Roman rule in Britain.

The legions would withdraw just a few decades later, leaving behind roads, walls, customs and maybe their greatest innovation taverns. The Romans had brought with them the Tabernae - part wine bar, part shop, part meeting place. Those early drinking dens planted the seed for something that would eventually grow into, tah dah! The British pub! Hail, Caesar! Darn good idea. 

We're off to The Ship at 68 Earl Road. The pub records go back to 1805, when it was known as The Old Ship, and the address was a bit different because of street naming. By 1822 it was just The Ship, and by 1856 the street had self-identified as Borough Road. So, all was good. No one questions that the ship is 200 years old, but that's about all the history I can find about it.

But in more recent times, rough seas did come to the ship. Let's go back a bit. It became a Fuller’s pub back in the 1990s. One source says that based on some items around the pub today, it could well have been a Charrington pub at some point before that. Charrington’s was a well-known brewing name in the UK from the 1700s until the mid-1960s. They were absorbed into the Bass organization, their pub sold off and eventually the Charrington name disappeared from the beer scene. An all too familiar story, but I guess as one of my faves in the rock world, Rush would sing, “Constant change is here to stay.” The Ship sailed along with Fuller's at the helm for two decades until January 2023, when the company released the pub and suddenly, without management, the pub shut. Rumor had it that excessive rent had put a nail in the pub’s coffin. A public outcry arose. Luckily the pub had some protection. In February 2021, two years earlier, it had received the title of “Asset of Community Value.” While not as good as a Grade II, ACV puts enough of a permitting and review roadblock to discourage, “Agents of unbridled modernization and their demolition mad minions.” The period of angst was mercifully short, just six months, and it was announced that True Pub Company would be reopening the pub. True Pub appears to be another small company like Parched Pubs that can run the place with respect to the pub's history and status in the community. They say on their website that they are,

“A curated section of charming pubs spanning London and beyond. Each venue boasts its own distinct charm, offering cozy interiors and delightful beer gardens.”

A Southwark News article published in May of 2023, just before the pub reopened, has some quotes from Gerald Flynn, the Company's Director,

“The pub has a massive history, so we kept all the original features.”

Commenting about renovating the garden, which had fallen into disrepair, Flynn said,

“Our focus has been to bring that back to life, ready for summer. We've also created an old traditional snug and more people can fit in now because of what we've done with the space.” 

He summed it up this way,

“I think people will really like what we've done here.”

Judging by the reviews posted after the reopening and into 2024, I think he’s right, both the pub and the staff are complimentary. Definitely worth a visit. 

All right, on to the next one. Three minutes down Borough Road to The Duke of York.No question about the name here. Or is there? First the numbers. Estimates are that there are over 50 pubs in the UK named The Duke of York, with six in Greater London. The current Duke of York, Prince Andrew, has been accused of some pretty repulsive conduct, and the question has arisen if the pubs should change their name.

The Independent did a story on this in 2022, quoting patrons from several of The Duke of York pubs in London. It's linked in the notes. The consensus seems to be that the pubs didn't need a name change. Many folks reasoning that the pub is not named after this specific Duke of York, a lady drinking in the Southwark Duke of York, the one we were headed to, seems to have an opinion typical of those asked.

“I don't think it's 100% necessary for pubs to change their names. Pubs have been around for a long time and it's not Prince Andrew's name up there.”

Okay, now that we have that issue out of the way, see all the trouble you caused us, Prince Andy? 

There has been a pub here since the early 1800s, and records in 1827 show the name as The Duke of York. The current pub reflects a Victorian rebuild. It was a Truman’s pub for a time and they had a passion of rebuilding their pubs. So, I would guess that Truman’s did the redo and that happened in the early 20th century. It has been Grade II listed since 1998. Yay! But before that the pub had a bit of a flash in the pan.

In the 1970s, when the name was changed. But for that story, we have to start with a bit of a pub loving character. Picture this in the late 1970s, David Bruce, an explorer turned unemployed jogger is pounding the pavements of South London when he spots a derelict pub. You know who? Bruce stopped running, took a closer look and became intrigued.

Within a short time and with a 10,000 pound lease and a dream, The Duke of York,which turned into a brew pub named The Goose and Firkin. This was kind of a throwback to the old ale houses, where the beer was brewed on site, just steps away from where you drank it. And just like the ale houses of yesteryear, the place was a bit scruffy. The beer wasn't cheap, the space was cramped, and the brew kit was little more than a glorified cupboard. But you can't keep a good idea down. On opening day in 1979, there were queues out the door. Londoners were ready for something new. From this basement brewhouse, Bruce built a small empire, each with a variation of the Firkin name. The Fox and Firkin in Lewisham, then The Fleece and Firkin in Bristol.

While the new sites were a bit smarter than the original. Each pub had its own beers and its own gleaming brew kit, often visible to the punters. The names got shakier and the slogans more outrageous, “For Firk’s sake, buy me a firkin pint” was a particular favorite. Now, you might think the name Firkin was just a cheeky bit of wordplay, and it sort of is.

But it's also a real beer term. A Firkin is an old British unit of volume, mostly obsolete today, unless you're talking about cask conditioned or real ale. The exact measure is varied, but in the modern imperial system, a Firkin comes out at nine gallons of beer. As for Bruce's Firkin venture, what began as a curiosity became a phenomenon by the end of the ‘90s.

There were 60 brew pubs and more than 100 Firkin branded pubs, stretching from London to Netherlands. Eventually, the Firkin Dream was bought up, expanded and diluted, and by the end of the decade of the ‘90s, snuffed out. Corporate takeovers turned the brew pubs into standard chains. The kettles went cold, the names were scrubbed, and CAMRA coined the term, “Firkinization” to describe the hollowing out of the original spirit.

But David Bruce wasn't done. He'd go on to back other brewing ventures across the UK, France and the US, and many ex-Firkin brewers helped feed the UK's modern craft scene. So, if you're sipping something hoppy in a London microbrewery today, you might tip your glass to David Bruce and Firkin because it can be said that they help make that possible.

When the Firkin days ended, the pub management, quite rightly put the pub's name back to the original. Shepherd Neame runs the place now. They proudly claim to be, “Britain's Oldest Brewer.” Wiki gives a few more details,

“They're an independent brewery based in the market town of Faversham, Kent. For over 300 years, while 1698 is a brewery's official established state town, records show that commercial brewing had been occurring since 1573. Since initial formation in the 16th century, ownership has passed in an unbroken succession through five families. His brewery produces a range of cask ales and filtered beers. The company has 300 pubs and hotels throughout London and Southeast England.”

So now we know that the pub is back with us after its Firkin detour and in good hands. Let's move on to The Albert Armsin the southwest, about seven minutes away on Gladstone Street.

This pub goes back to the 1850s. PubWiki is a good source of historical data, and they accept contributions from people with specific knowledge about Pub History. I found a contribution by Mr. Steven Harris regarding this pub's original publican, and it's quite charming, 

“My great great great grandfather Richard William Pyne is listed as a licensed victualler. Aged 36, living in The Albert Arms in 1851. I've had a pint in this boozer. It was quite a surreal experience that my third great grandfather could have been behind the same bar counter and trod the same boards in 1851.”

Thank you, Mr. Harris. I love this kind of stuff. Pubs really do help connect us with the past in a very personal and human way. CAMRAtells us,

“This is a very cozy Victorian pub dating from 1852, retaining twin bars named Albert and Victoria, and some original features including leaded windows and wooden paneling.”

Thanks, CAMRA.

Other than the two named bars, there may not be a unique about this pub, but hey, it's been around for 175 years, that's something. There was a kitchen fire in 2017 that required the pub to be closed for a bit, but it's going strong now.

Their website concludes with the following sentence,

“We think The Albert Arms is a great local.”

I love it! That's a wonderful aspiration for a pub to be. 

Our last pub is The Elephant and Castle, and let's be clear from the start, the current building isn't the original headline act. It's more like a tribute band. Not trying to fool anyone but keeping the name alive and playing the old hits.

Why? Because the original Elephant and Castle was the real deal. A tavern and a coaching inn so well known that it gave its name to the entire area. The original inn stood just a little northwest of the modern pub, at the junction where several important roads meet Newington Butts, Walworth Road and London Road. It was already a local landmark in the early 1700s, serving as a stop for stagecoaches and mail coaches heading in and out of the city. Think of it as kind of a Georgian era motorway station, only with ale and a stable yard. 

No one quite knows when the first version of the pub opened, but by the 1760s it was appearing in directories and on maps, and by the late 18th century it was already giving its name to the junction, the surrounding district and even a nearby theater. The area went from being known as Newington Cross to simply Elephant and Castle. But what really locked in the name was when the tube station opened under it in the early 1900s. First on the Bakerloo line in 1906, and then on the northern line two years later. Because it's kind of at the end of the line, anyone who has ridden the tube very much would attest to seeing trains with that name on the engine forehead. It kind of sticks in your mind, doesn’t it? Actor Michael Caine, who grew up here, says,

“Everyone in the neighborhood simply referred to the area as The Elephant.”

By the way, in addition to Michael, famous folks from these parts include Charlie Chaplin, the great silent screen comic actor, and Mary Wilson Pratt, an early feminist writer. But people probably today know her best as providing the middle name to her more well-known daughter - the author of the book Frankenstein. Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley. 

Okay, so the area got its name from the pub. So where did the pub get its name? A couple possibilities have been thrown up. A corruption of "La Infanta de Castilla” - Spanish noble woman Queen Eleanor, whose title may have morphed into Elephant and Castle over time. Or it might be referring to an emblem from the Worshipful Company of Cutlers, the Knife and Sword Makers Guild, who used an elephant bearing a castle shape howdah, to symbolize strength and exotic materials like ivory. 

Side note. Howdah is the carriage or platform that's mounted on the back of an elephant. The traditional sign for the pub does include the elephant with the howdah on it. Maybe the pub's name came from that guild emblem?

You will always see these two possibilities mentioned when you type in how the heck did Elephant Castle get its name? But local historian Stephen Humphries, who published a history of the area in 2013, says neither holds up to scrutiny. The image of an elephant carrying a castle is an emblem that's been popular across Europe for centuries, and more than a thousand years before Queen Eleanor's time.

He also noted that this particular pub’s sign doesn’t appear in the area until sometime about 500 years after her death. So, in other words, the Queen Eleanor connection is pure myth. As for the connection to the trade union, we know that the first recorded licensee was George Frost in 1765. He likely named the pub, although he is mentioned in records of the area various times.

There's no indication of his connection to The Cutlers or any other trade union. So, what can we say about the name? Mr. Humphrey tells us the sad truth, 

“The sudden appearance of the ancient sign under George Frost’s proprietorship cannot be explained by his career.”

As with the vast majority of pub names, the choice in this case was probably just a random one.

So, the inn with the great name of unknown origin, underwent significant transformations over the years. It was rebuilt in 1816 and again in 1898, each time adapting to the evolving needs of the bustling junction it served. In 1898, the reconstruction resulted in a grand, five story Victorian edifice that became a prominent landmark in the area. However, the ravages of World War Two left their mark. The area suffered extensive bomb damage, and the Victorian pub was ultimately demolished in 1959. In its place, a new building was erected in the 1960s as part of a comprehensive redevelopment of the area. Today's Elephant Castle pub sits right on the busy main junction, the latest in the pub serving incarnations over the centuries. This pub version was built in 1966 as part of the postwar rebuilding program.

Worth noting that the original pub stood about 40m away, roughly where the modern roundabout now churns between Newington Butts and Walworth Roads. In the late ‘90s and early 2000s, the pub carved out a name as a launching pad for the UK garage scene, with pioneering deejays playing pack sets here before the genre hit the mainstream. 

After closing in 2015, the pub gained Asset of Community Value status thanks to local support. It reopened in 2016 under the wing of Antic, a London pub group known for reviving unloved spaces with their trademark offbeat retro style. As CAMRA describes it, 

“The layout features bare boards throughout, padded booth seating in raised front area and open to view kitchen. There's a bit of an industrial edge with exposed surfaces and pipework, and a mix of quirky mid-century furnishings scattered across the place. It's a single room interior with big windows on three sides, dark wooden bar along the back and an eclectic spread of decor. Vintage radios, clocks, LPs and even an old shoe or two. Outside, there's a small patio area and if you glance to the right, the stairs lead down to a basement bar that may or may not be open, depending on the night.”

Now, let's be clear. This is a modern pub, and it's a different experience from the kind of places we usually feature. Still, it's very much a part of The Elephant story. It gets lively, especially with the post-work crowd and whether it's your kind of place or not, it reflects the era that it came from. For many locals, it is still very much the heart of The Elephant.

So, if you're curious to know more, Pubs Galore has several detailed firsthand reviews that dig a little deeper into the atmosphere and layout. I've linked them in the show notes.That brings us to the end of our route today. Five pubs stretching from Southwark down to The Elephant, as the locals would say. 

If you've got a favorite I've missed or a bit of pub history you think deserves to mention, I'd love to hear from you. The email’s in the show notes hosteric@historiclondonpubcast.com, and you can always visit historiclondonpubcast.com for maps pinning every pub we've covered, a full episode archive, and a few extras along the way. If you're enjoying the journey, tap, follow or subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. We've got more stories on tap and more pubs just around the corner.

Till then, Cheers!